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Well now, isn't this just another great example of just how screwed up the catholic church really is?? How about that discriminating against women. It seems they just keep on adding one thing after another to show they smallness and inability to just be and not show that they are superior to the rest of us...When was the last time anyone of our kind discriminated against our own kind? In our world all are really created equal...They say that we are evil. Who is the evil ones now? What with all the abuse against children, the degredation and pursecution against all who do not succumb to their twisted ways and now finally they have crossed the final line by telling women that they are inferior to men by now allowing them to become priests. Hell in our world some of the most powerful entities among us are the high priestess'. Who the hell do they think they are demeaning our most sacred of creatures? Thngs like this really make me despise them all the more.There shall come a time when WE wil reign and then WE shall show them whohas the most power. WE will show them just who has the most forgiving ways. WE will show them that you don't have to beg for anything. All you need to be secure in your afterlife is FREEWILL. FREEWILL is what we are all about. YOU have a choice as to which path you shall take. You have the choice as to how you will be. No one ever tells you you must bow before them and grovel for your eternal existance. You choose eternity as you wish it to be. If they only knew just how good it is to be on the Dark side. But, they will never get the chance. They shall never make it past our Black Pearly Gates or the Door to the Afterlife. They shall always be guarded by those of us that believe. Tell me what you think of this. D.W. Blessed BE.

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Yes, I agree...If it were not for us THEY would have nothing to believe in. Unfortunately as always THEY had to twist and dement our ways to accomodate a more "social" way of thinking...Too bad for them...THEY could learn a lot from us if THEY would only unchain their uninformed minds long enough to see that the Darkness is not something to be feared, but embraced...Ah but maybe someday!...Thanks for the return...Hope to be friends soon...DW
I agree with you all. If we were created to be in the image of god wouldn't we be created in both the images of the male and female sides of the divine? They claim were created in the divine image, but to them there's no goddess, so how and what image were women created in if there isn't a Goddesss? What are they thinnking? Well anyways I think women are equal, and that's what hte church should think.

Blessed Be,
Silverthorn
I was raised Roman Catholic and went to catholic school for a month every summer. At one point I wanted to be a priest. Let me explain: I was born with several gifts and not understanding them, I thought the church was the way to go. Bull, all the nuns and priests would tell me was that satan was whispering in my ear. Very confused until I was about 14 and I had a very brilliant visitor, glowing that is, in the middle of the night. It woke me up. I thought at the time that it was my Grandfather who had passed 11 years before. My brother was scared because he thought it was a ghost. Now I understand that it was my Master guardian, not my Grandfather. Anyway, this guardian told me that I was going to have very special gifts that would get stronger as I got older and not to let satan pull me into the evil side. I like the dark side but not evil. The church has no pull on me anymore. Going to confession was like getting your teeth pulled. I hated it. Go into a dark box, kneel down, the divider slides back and all you can see is the outline of the priests head. That can scare the hell out of a kid. For example: My Dad came home in the middle of a blizzard and kicked my Mom out of the house and then divorced her, He is a very big asshole, anyway, the catholic church would not let her take part in any religious doings in the church. She was divorced and she was living in sin because she was not with her husband. Once married always married unless the church anules the marriage but they rarely do except for the very rich. The catholic church is very powerful but we are all trying to ascend to the next level and all religions started from pagan teachings and then they changed them around to fit their needs. Well, I rambled on here. Just giving a few takes on the catholic church. I will really give you some insight this weekend. Luv May Quin Yin bless you
I watched a show on the history channel the other day... well.. I wasn't planning on it.. the show was on when I turned on the TV lol. Anyway it was about the bible. There are a lot of things that the people who began the Christian religions haven't included. The one that I thought was most interesting was that supposedly Adam was married twice. The first wife was created just as Adam was from "the breath of God" but was given a choice of accepting Adam as the head of household, basically being subservient to him, or not. She refused to allow him to be the leader... so she was "cast out" and became a "handmaiden to satan". LOL I cracked up when I heard this! Isn't it the way of the Christian religion to make the woman a bad person for not bowing down to someone else!
What is with all of this insipid hatred that seems to spring up between Christians and various groups of pagans? What is with this twisted logic and fallacy and persecution complexes and overall sense of inexcusable weakness -- on BOTH sides.

Call me an inactive observer if you want; I'm neither pagan nor of the Abrahamic faiths, no. But that's not why I have such a problem with all of this, in fact, my own "irreligiousness" has nothing to do with it. I have a problem with this because there are people in this world who are starving, abused, mistreated in every way, people who are bought and sold like the meanest of cattle and treated worse, killed over little or nothing, born with addiction already taking over their minds, and so many other travesties... and you're all sitting here complaining, about what? Women can't be priests in some Christian sects?
...seriously??

This "us and them" mentality sickens me. We're all human beings. Whether we believe in Jesus or Allah or Isis or Mother Earth, we are all human. There's no "WE". There's no "THEM". We are all US. We all have our faults and flaws as well as our virtues, and our religion does NOT decide those for us.

"Most sacred"... so you view women as sacred. Okay, great for you. They view men as sacred. Who's right? Answer: It doesn't matter. You have different beliefs. That happens. There is NO need to display such animosity for theirs, especially when you're complaining about them doing likewise to yours. Be the bigger person, not the hypocrite.

Plus, as I'm aware, this is not news. It's been going on for centuries if not millenia.

[My apologies if this offends anyone. It truly is not meant to offend, merely to display my rather extreme emotions on the subject, similar to (but on a different focus than) yours, DW.]
~ Taylor
Taylor said:
What is with all of this insipid hatred that seems to spring up between Christians and various groups of pagans? What is with this twisted logic and fallacy and persecution complexes and overall sense of inexcusable weakness -- on BOTH sides.

Call me an inactive observer if you want; I'm neither pagan nor of the Abrahamic faiths, no. But that's not why I have such a problem with all of this, in fact, my own "irreligiousness" has nothing to do with it. I have a problem with this because there are people in this world who are starving, abused, mistreated in every way, people who are bought and sold like the meanest of cattle and treated worse, killed over little or nothing, born with addiction already taking over their minds, and so many other travesties... and you're all sitting here complaining, about what? Women can't be priests in some Christian sects?
...seriously??

This "us and them" mentality sickens me. We're all human beings. Whether we believe in Jesus or Allah or Isis or Mother Earth, we are all human. There's no "WE". There's no "THEM". We are all US. We all have our faults and flaws as well as our virtues, and our religion does NOT decide those for us.

"Most sacred"... so you view women as sacred. Okay, great for you. They view men as sacred. Who's right? Answer: It doesn't matter. You have different beliefs. That happens. There is NO need to display such animosity for theirs, especially when you're complaining about them doing likewise to yours. Be the bigger person, not the hypocrite.

Plus, as I'm aware, this is not news. It's been going on for centuries if not millenia.

[My apologies if this offends anyone. It truly is not meant to offend, merely to display my rather extreme emotions on the subject, similar to (but on a different focus than) yours, DW.]
~ Taylor

I hear what you are saying. I am only going to speak for myself. I have a personal grudge, I can't think of a nicer way to say it, against the Christian faith. I have personally felt the sting of rejection and hatred.. yup hatred.. because of my beliefs. I am an outcast from my birth family, not that it bothers me much anymore. I studied Christianity... I was a Christian.. but when I felt the call of the Goddess... I was considered evil. Most Christians that I know are much less forgiving or caring or loving than those of Pagan design. If I were to give you examples.. it would take pages... so I won't lol. Let's just say if a group of people hate you or find a way to use your beliefs against you... what would you do? This forum is for people who have varied beliefs.. this forum (I believe) is for us to express our beliefs, our anger, our disdain in a safe way.. without being stoned for it.

If you look at the history of the Pagan belief system you would see that Pagans were just going along doing what they did... but Christians decided to "conquer" the heathen masses. Have you ever heard of the Salem Witch Trials? Have you ever read about the Christian leaders decisions to drown, burn and kill so-called Witches long before the America's? If you have you would see that for most Pagans the Christian religion is filled with evil and hatred. Did you know, for instance, that the Pope sided with Hitler against the Jews? Look at history and you will see why I feel such disdain for the Christian faith. Most Christians consider Paganism to be a "cult"... IMO.. it is the other way around.
I agree with Taylor and erthgoddes in that I do believe that we are all homo sapians and that we all came from the Earth, by the way evolution had a part of it so thank the gods we survived millions of years without high technology of today. And if you want my opinion, the church just doesn't like the idea that we are all equal under the Eyes of God (or the Gods, Goddess, or Mother) Neither does the Jews nor the Muslims respect science, even though logically they wouldn't be in their respective lives without it. And all pagans really need to do is educate our poor ignorant brothers and sisters on how civilized people behave in a high technological society without blowing up and killing other people because of another's belief or culture.

BB RR

erthgoddss said:
Taylor said:
What is with all of this insipid hatred that seems to spring up between Christians and various groups of pagans? What is with this twisted logic and fallacy and persecution complexes and overall sense of inexcusable weakness -- on BOTH sides.

Call me an inactive observer if you want; I'm neither pagan nor of the Abrahamic faiths, no. But that's not why I have such a problem with all of this, in fact, my own "irreligiousness" has nothing to do with it. I have a problem with this because there are people in this world who are starving, abused, mistreated in every way, people who are bought and sold like the meanest of cattle and treated worse, killed over little or nothing, born with addiction already taking over their minds, and so many other travesties... and you're all sitting here complaining, about what? Women can't be priests in some Christian sects?
...seriously??

This "us and them" mentality sickens me. We're all human beings. Whether we believe in Jesus or Allah or Isis or Mother Earth, we are all human. There's no "WE". There's no "THEM". We are all US. We all have our faults and flaws as well as our virtues, and our religion does NOT decide those for us.

"Most sacred"... so you view women as sacred. Okay, great for you. They view men as sacred. Who's right? Answer: It doesn't matter. You have different beliefs. That happens. There is NO need to display such animosity for theirs, especially when you're complaining about them doing likewise to yours. Be the bigger person, not the hypocrite.

Plus, as I'm aware, this is not news. It's been going on for centuries if not millenia.

[My apologies if this offends anyone. It truly is not meant to offend, merely to display my rather extreme emotions on the subject, similar to (but on a different focus than) yours, DW.]
~ Taylor

I hear what you are saying. I am only going to speak for myself. I have a personal grudge, I can't think of a nicer way to say it, against the Christian faith. I have personally felt the sting of rejection and hatred.. yup hatred.. because of my beliefs. I am an outcast from my birth family, not that it bothers me much anymore. I studied Christianity... I was a Christian.. but when I felt the call of the Goddess... I was considered evil. Most Christians that I know are much less forgiving or caring or loving than those of Pagan design. If I were to give you examples.. it would take pages... so I won't lol. Let's just say if a group of people hate you or find a way to use your beliefs against you... what would you do? This forum is for people who have varied beliefs.. this forum (I believe) is for us to express our beliefs, our anger, our disdain in a safe way.. without being stoned for it.

If you look at the history of the Pagan belief system you would see that Pagans were just going along doing what they did... but Christians decided to "conquer" the heathen masses. Have you ever heard of the Salem Witch Trials? Have you ever read about the Christian leaders decisions to drown, burn and kill so-called Witches long before the America's? If you have you would see that for most Pagans the Christian religion is filled with evil and hatred. Did you know, for instance, that the Pope sided with Hitler against the Jews? Look at history and you will see why I feel such disdain for the Christian faith. Most Christians consider Paganism to be a "cult"... IMO.. it is the other way around.
Hi most here know me as Lady Dragoness . I want to share something with all of you ,http://www.remnantofgod.org/pope1.htm please check this out read the entire thing . It would be wonderful if this would be published in every news paper on earth just so we Pagans could have the last laugh.......BTW as yall get to know me you will notice I am much more than the Mom of 2 girls but I'm something very Special ... Love&Light to all
I have to say that I applaud this comment with not to much more to say but this .... Don't you find it hard to truely LOVE when you hold so much hate ?... Can't " WE" all just be happy that a person holds faith in SOMETHING !
Blessed Be

Taylor said:
What is with all of this insipid hatred that seems to spring up between Christians and various groups of pagans? What is with this twisted logic and fallacy and persecution complexes and overall sense of inexcusable weakness -- on BOTH sides.

Call me an inactive observer if you want; I'm neither pagan nor of the Abrahamic faiths, no. But that's not why I have such a problem with all of this, in fact, my own "irreligiousness" has nothing to do with it. I have a problem with this because there are people in this world who are starving, abused, mistreated in every way, people who are bought and sold like the meanest of cattle and treated worse, killed over little or nothing, born with addiction already taking over their minds, and so many other travesties... and you're all sitting here complaining, about what? Women can't be priests in some Christian sects?
...seriously??

This "us and them" mentality sickens me. We're all human beings. Whether we believe in Jesus or Allah or Isis or Mother Earth, we are all human. There's no "WE". There's no "THEM". We are all US. We all have our faults and flaws as well as our virtues, and our religion does NOT decide those for us.

"Most sacred"... so you view women as sacred. Okay, great for you. They view men as sacred. Who's right? Answer: It doesn't matter. You have different beliefs. That happens. There is NO need to display such animosity for theirs, especially when you're complaining about them doing likewise to yours. Be the bigger person, not the hypocrite.

Plus, as I'm aware, this is not news. It's been going on for centuries if not millenia.

[My apologies if this offends anyone. It truly is not meant to offend, merely to display my rather extreme emotions on the subject, similar to (but on a different focus than) yours, DW.]
~ Taylor
You base your hatred on a mistranslation?

And let us all never forget that such was written in the laws of the Jews, which the Christians by the words of Christ do not follow.

"This is their code and their goal"? As said by whom? I for one have NEVER heard such a statement, and I live among Christians, I am married to a Catholic, and I was at one time Christian myself.

Your "war" is with fundamentalists who take their religion to a level no one should take any belief to. Guess who else hates them? Other Christians. Actually, pretty much everyone. Christians are not all these blood-sucking, fiendish, horrible people that many seem to think they are. Is not saying so as bad as them calling you a Satanist for not worshiping their god?
Do you not see the double-standard you've created for yourself? All of you. Call a spade a spade, but don't call it a battle-axe.

I am done with this conversation. Thank you all for the discussion.

DragonKnight said:
It seems that this thread has gone from a statement to blind defense for and of Christianity, let us all never forget that it was their Holy Book that stated “Thou shall not suffer a Witch to live” that sounds like a declaration of war by this religion. Actually against all non Christian bodies as a whole and lumping them together as one in the same as long as it is not Christian, it is wrong! I know that I "never" forget that it is a war, and as long as there is intolerance on their part, I will remain intolerant against it, just keep this in mind... "One world, One Government, One Religion to oversee it all!" this is their code and goal, I know I will not forget the things they have done and burnt deeply into "MY" psyche, and there to stay for all times!
~DK~
If you notice, ma'am, that was not directed at you, except for the part that said "All of you".
I have no "bigotry toward pagans", I simply dislike your bigotry toward Christians. I am neither pagan nor Christian; I am nonreligious.
There is no evidence of Christians, except the fundies that few people, even other Christians, take seriously, trying to legislate Christianity, and such is expressly forbidden in the Constitution.
Honestly, all I can see is a persecution complex to rival the Fluffies' and an ageist, pompous attitude, covered in something that is supposed to resemble "politeness". Thank you, but I need it not.

It has become obvious that this message board is not for me. Thank you all for your discussion. Adios.

Donna said:
No, I don't see a double standard at all. I see facts and research what I read. I spent more years in a Christian church than you've lived in total. I don't hate anyone. You assume that because I wish to preserve my right to freedom of religion and to be able to buy alcohol on Sunday that I hat Christians? I find that to be a statement that indicates that you are the one feeling hatred. I hat no one. However, I will not sit back while the Christian community as a whole and not just the fundamentalists , work through being in government to legislate a religion that is restrictive and demeaning toward anyone not one of them. Once you get out of high school and go out into the real world you will begin to see that your assumptions are not only wrong but very reactionary. Your bigotry toward Pagans is really misplaced because you fail to recognize that we all have rights that have been slowly eroded by the people you have identified yourself.

Taylor said:
You base your hatred on a mistranslation?

And let us all never forget that such was written in the laws of the Jews, which the Christians by the words of Christ do not follow.

"This is their code and their goal"? As said by whom? I for one have NEVER heard such a statement, and I live among Christians, I am married to a Catholic, and I was at one time Christian myself.

Your "war" is with fundamentalists who take their religion to a level no one should take any belief to. Guess who else hates them? Other Christians. Actually, pretty much everyone. Christians are not all these blood-sucking, fiendish, horrible people that many seem to think they are. Is not saying so as bad as them calling you a Satanist for not worshiping their god?
Do you not see the double-standard you've created for yourself? All of you. Call a spade a spade, but don't call it a battle-axe.

I am done with this conversation. Thank you all for the discussion.

DragonKnight said:
It seems that this thread has gone from a statement to blind defense for and of Christianity, let us all never forget that it was their Holy Book that stated “Thou shall not suffer a Witch to live” that sounds like a declaration of war by this religion. Actually against all non Christian bodies as a whole and lumping them together as one in the same as long as it is not Christian, it is wrong! I know that I "never" forget that it is a war, and as long as there is intolerance on their part, I will remain intolerant against it, just keep this in mind... "One world, One Government, One Religion to oversee it all!" this is their code and goal, I know I will not forget the things they have done and burnt deeply into "MY" psyche, and there to stay for all times!
~DK~
When People relieze we as Humans are all one ,people will stop fighting over petty things such as religeon

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