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The new Paganism of the 2000 years and beyond...( Suggested to a better comprehension of your Founder thoughts... before to attack him... if you ever care! )

Regarding my vision, I like to say that I'm ideally embracing and trying to reactivate the ancient Roman Paganism dream, which was the liberal profession of exercising a cult among differentiations.
Which means just FREEDOM of choice!! A forgotten word for many of the fundamentalist religions of today!

By Roman Paganism I mean including all the cults that were spread out through the immense ancient Roman Empire, including all the Greeks, Egyptians, Celts, Babylonians and etc.
As we know all the major cults of antiquity were ideally represented in the Roman Pantheon.
Furthermore Roman Magic was the original matrix of Modern Wicca as for Leland and Gardner visions.

One of the point more debated about my "vision" of modern Paganism is the general unwelcome concept by a lot of modern Pagans about the needs for a Pagan guidance. A guidance in the hands of a person, as a Pontifex Maximus ( Leader or Messiah, or a Priestess if you like... )...
I can superficially sympathize with that skepticism, even agree partially that a needs of a kind of a Pagan Mondial Leader can be a thing not in tune with the essence of Paganism... but I can argue that one of the weakest point of Paganism was about his fragmentation in many differentiate cults! After all I sincerely believe instead that an expert and wise ( hopefully ) guidance is absolutely needed, with a legitimate structure on the back that will establish modern Paganism as a real legitimate public entity with a tangible role in our society.
In becoming a unified entity, among obvious differentiations within the different cults, our voice through this new Pagan committee can be heard finally by all, getting surely a much more strong impact on the media and masses.
This committee will be the one in charge of electing a Leader ( similar to a Democratic style, this leader can be elected through voting, for a fixed amount of years each time, in perpetual change ), that with the help of a kind of Pagan Senate ( do you remember Rome?... ), can direct the all Neopagan modern movement!...

This implies evidently a strong effort for the Pagans to become, I will say FINALLY after centuries of solitary cults attempts, an ensemble that can trespass personal goals and interests for the good of the entire Pagan community...
Paganism strongly needs to erase the errors of our ancestors that were underestimating the value of unity, to become finally a powerful center instead to be fragmented into millions of little spread out cults...

Regarding my personal call to ask for a clarification from the Major Religions about their real goals and nature, I like to add that nothing is more far from the truth of my real intentions to be considered as an antagonist or to worst an enemy of millions of non-Pagan people...
I respect Islam, Christianism, Judaism and any other religion of the Planet.
What I don't accept is the fundamentalism embedded in them. If Islam will remove his intolerance and fundamentalism, I will be the first one to enter, if they let me, the mosque to pray with them.
So needs to be really clear that I'm not in any way against people that profess a different Credo from mine. In fact, in being a proud son of the libertine ancient Rome, I totally believe that people need to be free to choose and practice their own religion or cult.

But I know also that Religions are mainly just a way or path to lead us to a spiritual achievement through a self sublimation of the soul, and like personal paths, whether different can be, none of them can claim or can be seen as the ONLY one or worst the "chosen" one!

Which translated means: that NOBODY has or can claim in this world the monopoly of truth.... NOBODY!!

That's what I believe and I will fight for...
...a new world of peace among differentiations, whether it's gonna be dominated by Pagans or not!

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I agree with the Founder's vision!!! ... lol lol ...
I agree that modern paganism is still weak because it is too fragmented into many different personal cults to be respected as a legitimate faith. And I see that most of pagan people don't want to be involved in political discussions as if they are afraid of being persecuted again by the fundamentalist oppressor. If we want to be respected as a valid faith, instead of being pointed as a weird people with strange manners, maybe we start to think about uniting all paths into a modern pagan temple structure with its clergy members elected by pagan people. Or maybe we continue this way, apart of all important discussions that concern about the world in wich we live and our future as a kind. Another faith are always participating of the most important discussions of the world. Why don't we? We don't have enough power to make changes alone. The union makes the strenght! Pagans united never will be defeated!
Right AUSPEX,

I will say like Sherlock H.: "elementary Watson!"...
I appreciated Donna wise invitations to take care of Mother Earth....

Once again to be heard by the masses or to get a chance of being heard, it is imperative as Neopagans to create a United movement of the whole Planetary Pagan community as first thing. As I said already, probably not an easy task, but certainly possible!

Any suggestions?...
Yes, thank you Auspex... I agree with you and with Founder that being in unity doesn't mean following one path only... Like the United States still has it's own individuality among the various states and counties inside them. It's pretty straight-forward. But that doesn't mean it's easy, either.
While I empathize with the intent of your vision, I am not sure how it would be made to happen. I left christianity behind for many reasons, but one of the biggest was that I was told what to think, how to think and what to do "to be a true christian". I understand that to be as powerful as the christian faith there would have to be a true communion of all pagans... but that is something I personally won't do. I am a solitary eclectic pagan, I don't agree with all of the decisions made by other pagans. I dont' prevent them from living the life they lead, but I won't go along just to get along. I wouldn't tolerate a "leader" of my faith. The idea of a democratic decision to elect a pagan leader wouldn't work. There are too many pagans who are still in the closet, how would they vote? They would be people that wouldn't be heard.

If there were a leader of the pagan people... whose faith would it be based on? Who is to say that one persons God or Goddess ideal is better than another ones? We as a pagan people pride ourselves on living within the earths embrace... however that happens for us. Some pagans specialize in differnt things, crystals, tarot, magics.. they are all the same but different in how we practce. So in essence while I applaud your vision, I personally don't want a leader to govern my life or my faith.
I know that I'm a newcomer for many of you, so that is better to present or describe myself:
In being called among the artist community a "lone wolf" and among Pagans being considered a solitary heretic, I think that I can claim and deserve with good reasons as you the title of a solitary Magus. So that I can understand your meaning and worry doubts erthgoddss...
It was and is also really clear to me that many Pagans are solitary erratic souls by definition... I know well all of that!

Notwithstanding this new world poses continuously new challenges and seems to questioning the old models of religions and cults. If we need to step ahead as a new fresh force in the fields of new religions it is a must for Neopagans to have a precise hierarchical structure with a leader or if you like a president. This doesn't mean in my opinion that we need to loose our independence as single person, in fact this leader or president won't be a tyrant or a dictator, rather instead a messenger to the world of this weird magical chain of souls that are the Pagans!

In brief, I think that this president-leader or if you like messenger ( messiah by the way means messenger... ) needs consequently to be an enlighted person of great culture, open minded and wise, with a deep knowledge of magic, philosophy and metaphysics, somebody that can represent all of us as Neopagans, the New Age Cults and Buddhism.
He can be helped by a team of Pagan experts that can further help the bureaucratic process of establishing Neopaganism as a new religion and relations with press and academic and public world.
Through that our voice can be heard and possibly can start a better understanding by the world of this enigmatic phenomenon that was and is Paganism. I think that this will be of benefit for all Pagans...

In all of that I don't see at all the end of ancient Paganism, instead I see the beginning of a new revolutionary spiritual movement, that finally won't be just a series of fragmented faiths but instead a powerful ensemble of various cults!
If I can say, I will consider this new NeoPaganism as a spiritual holistic cure where the common man and the enlighted one can find among the different cults, many different spiritual and practical resources for their lives...
So that we don't need to fear the advent of this magical reunion, since the single Pagan can always continue his personal research as lone wolf if he likes or inside a more defined and organized group!

After all of that, to be clear, I'm not surely suggest myself as the future leader or president! ... I'm just... the Messiah of this Neopaganism!!... he he he lol lol... ( I can see already the expression of disgust on your faces... )

As an ancient proverb said: In the union lay the strength !
Ilirrik,

I'm having problems understanding your posting meanings... however if I got right your message, which implies an universal rejection of any form of government or political control, I do not think that we cannot generalize the concept of government and implications based on your example above and a fundamentalist behavior of a leader cannot stop the ongoing process of Human civilization progress...

Furthermore your vision seems to imply a return to a kind of barbarian pre stone age individualism that will turn the world into a planet of individualism, anarchy and chaos...

Now, for a better understanding, please tell me more in details what are your ideas on the issue and if my perceptions of your posting is correct...
If I wanna be practical and cynical I can say that what counts is what history has proof.

That mean as an example that a Roman Empire alike society ( or Paganism ) has proven itself for more than thousand years before to fall, a fall due also to the rejection and abandonment of the original model. So that if we stick with the Roman model we know that our chances of succesfull society are high. Surely then we need to take into account also all the variables about the nature of the people of this society, the military strenght etc... Obviously a Roman model imply an imperialistic orientation and a continuouos defence and offence to control and expand your borders.

The 60's and 70's share part of the messianic-comunist credo started officially with Jesus Christ's evangelization. This type of society implies in his purest meaning the supremacy of altruism against individualism, and surely a society composed mainly by saints...
So that shortly ( well I can write pages and pages on that ...) seems to be an utopistic and impossible model....

In fact modern Christianism is just a very very far relatives of the original Credo of jesus and Paul of Tarsus.

The oriental religions like Hinduism or Buddishm, just only with the exasperated concept of Karma will annihilate personal freedom and enterprise to create a kind of man-monk that cannot procreate... so that they can be impossible kind of impossible models...

Communism has failed everywere... China idem... ( Im not talking about contemporary China .. )

Then we have the aggressive fundamentalist model of Islam that has proven to be effective, but lives the people in poverty and anger.... ( just to say two things ...)

At the end we know that our current capitalistic society, that we obstinately are calling Christian, but of the true credo of Christ very very little shares, showed to be possible and sustainable.
At the roots of her success I can see the legacy with Rome.... as we know Christianism stole Roman Mithraism and Paulus of Tarsus built the new faith on that ...

So that the Roman prototype and the Capitalistic prototype are possible and can create a better wealth among the people.

About a chaotic society based on complete anarchy we don't know... I assume that is unsustainable by default and obvious implications...

So that speaking harshly and practical we need to work on the two winners model in order to make a possible third one!

If somebody has a better and clear ideas can talk....
I am not sure Founder, I find that even in relatively successful societies there has been a lot of aggression. IMO.. and my history may be faulty here... the Roman Empire fell because of greed. The leaders wanted to progress too far too fast, until the common people turned against them. In every civilization power of the few that governs the many is corrupt, I haven't seen it otherwise.

How would Paganism benefit from this? I think electing a governing body sounds good on paper.. but Pagan or not we are all just people with our own thoughts and dreams. Let's say for arguments sake that we found the "right" person who was ghandi-like. How do we know that persons dreams wouldn't change when power was in his/her reach? How do we know that the person elected wasn't just a sham until in power then all would change?

From what I have read the Pagan people were a solitary group of people who lived in clans in the stone ages, they were plagued by the christians who thought they were barbaric and evil... but it was only a ruse to gain more followers and in essence more coins in their purses.

From my history readings.. I can't say that a governing body would be beneficial in a larger perspective. I would agree that the pagan community must be heard, I am just not sure that following the ways of the past would help... or hurt us. I have no other ideas on how to get the pagan people on a more "respectful" plane.. but then again... I am not sure we need to be. I am not prepared for more "burning times" .
Oh "my Gods!" ... now you are rewriting history erthgoddss .... the solitary romantic stone age Pagans were long gone when Paganism was huge and triumphing in Rome... masses of Pagans in big cities! ... then the Christian persecution you are talkin' was much later...

It is false or partially truth that Paganism is just about solitary wizards!... this is just a romantic myth, ignoring big part of the real history of Paganism...

Its not about Gandhi-like or Hitler-like or Caesar-like or JFK-like etc... its just about to find a person ( the famous Messenger... ) that can speak for us defending our rights and explaining to the world what in reality Paganism is all about. Hopefully in getting better understood and legitimated...

Also, as I said, besides this social structure that will represent in our society a finally united Paganism, all the rest will remain untouched so that you, if you like, can still go in the forest to perform your preferred rituals as you do today!

Regarding Rome I suggest a moment of deep reflection... I look at your "superficial" analysis and don't reply until you have the desire and time to read in deep about the story of this city and the philosophy that drove Her... it took me 45 years to have a decent understanding of this and I still have more I can learn and discover!....

... In sincerity, regarding the "close-minded" attitude of many members, I have the unpleasant feeling that you are just posting to enter an egotistic "fight status" instead to open your mind or to listen to a different opinion, that can be maybe more deeper of what you think!!...
The Fall of Man.
What a hauntingly accurate description of the downward social spiral the world finds itself in today. After my introduction and the explanation of The Venus Project, I have listed quotes from an essay on siloam.com that provide an eloquent and incredibly beautiful summation that goes full circle and will be relevant to you, no matter what faith you follow. On December 21, 2012, we will be entering the beginning of a 26,000 year long sun cycle. The 5th sun is the return of cosmic consciousness! We have passed through 4 other sun cycles that have been the ages of the material, physical, mental, and spiritual -the beautifully simple conclusion is left- we are going to put it all together, and truly embrace Divinity. Being an Indigo Child, I feel that it is my task to add to our collective consciousness. Read, children of Earth! Read, and be enlightened. And, don't forget to share this information. If you don't know already, consciousness is contagious, and word travels like lightning. I believe in you! I believe in all of us. We can do this, together.

"When modern culture lost respect for the animal world and the natural world, it disconnected itself from its roots. The return of evolutionary consciousness which carries the wisdom of our ancestors will restore consciousness of the cosmos to the soul of modern civilization. That will represent a rebirth and a new cosmogenesis. The rebirth and the new cosmogenesis will come from the past as an awareness of returning spirituality from the days before the Fall of Man. "

A New World will need a new social structure, as well. lirrik, I agree that the government is simply incompatible with the growing consciousness of humanity. We are quite intelligent, and have figured out the lies and tools of manipulation that our government perpetuates. We are getting impatient, and upset. We are forced to compete with each other to survive (employment). We cannot concentrate on developing our abilities because most people are unwillingly distracted with mundane jobs. People are being forced into desperate acts.

FACT: money is an illusion that now has little relevance to society and serves as a tool for manipulation and division along a kind of social organization that guarantees elitism, crime, war and social stratification. The reality of our situation is that if all debts are payed off, there would not be any money left in circulation! Money and debt are one in the same. Yes, that is right. Money was purposefully created to be a means of manipulation. It was created to exist for a very long time, but it is not unbreakable. We must do away with it, all together.

"The Venus Project is in the process of introducing a set of values and procedures that may enable us to achieve social nucleation. Our project will provide the designs and blueprints for a prototype community to test the validity of our proposals; we will strive to achieve a relevant orientation by which people may adapt intellectually and emotionally to our new technological age. We feel that anything short of overall social design would be inappropriate and ineffective. In fact, the only true "government" that can possibly exist is the earth and its resources. From there, all possibilities can be assessed. This is why an intellectual unification of all countries is needed, for the most important information we as a species can have is a full, highly detailed assessment of what we have on this planet."


Here's an elaboration on the Coming of the 5th Sun:

The Mayans were people of the New Age, living well before their time in a world where dreams were equal to life, and life was but a dream. We are all cast upon this rock with a death sentence inherited by birth. Those who recognize that destiny before it is fulfilled can become the sons of God, while the life giving waters still flow. Those who venture into the underworld in the hopes that some merciful Lord of Xibalba will allow them some sense of victory to defeat the sentence of death will live in tribulation and despair, until the fires in their souls vanish. The story of One Hunahpu and his son Hunahpu tells the winners of the game that it is to be played with total commitment for the sake of the life to come in the generations which follow in the footsteps of the ancestors. Compassion for the sufferings of life is the secret they reveal to all who would proceed beyond the Cosmogenesis 2012. The time and the message were encoded in the New Jerusalem known to the Maya as Teotihuacan during the Age of the 5th Sun.

"When the path of the solar barque is found (2012), either it will demonstrate intelligent design, or it will demonstrate chaos. If it demonstrates the latter, then the search is futile, and even material science cannot prevail. If it demonstrates the former, the search is inevitably tied to the original intent. That is why, the world will change dramatically when the age of the 5th Sun passes successfully. Then, humanity will necessarily be counted amongst the gods who have recognized the inevitability of intentional design in creation. Thus, the end of the age of the 5th Sun was understood by the Maya to be the time of the release of the soul from the prison of material existence through cosmic enlightenment of the originating plan."

"The Giza complex was designed to carry the most profound knowledge which human kind had ever gained from the experience of life. The architecture was created to demonstrate the principle of the empty tomb, or the resurrection to everlasting life. That is the essential message behind all great monumental structures. The very idea of monumental construction is to pass on to later generations the wisdom of prior ages. When understood and properly applied, the resurrection of the spirits of the ancestors can be fulfilled. During the life span of the monument builders, their own cultures were stabilized for centuries, or millennia, by the knowledge that their own purposes in life could reach fulfillment, if not in the immediate experience, in a reincarnation when their knowledge returned to earth as cosmic wisdom. A higher goal for any generation is not a possible reality. "

"The fact that we do not create great monuments any more is evidence that we live after a cataclysmic event. It is a means of communication we no longer understand. We have searched everywhere, and we have essentially proven that since the last ice age, circa 9,500 BC, there have been no great worldwide catastrophes in the material world. The catastrophe that has occurred, and the influence of which still effects us today, is what the ancients called the Fall of Man. That is the catastrophe which results when dreams become more important than reality; when ego is more important than consciousness. This particular catastrophe was predicted by the architects of the Great Pyramids, Stonehenge, and the monuments in Mesoamerica. We are presently searching for our beginnings, after denying our ancestors. But, we are failing to acknowledge that the reason we do not understand our ancestors, is because we portray them as illiterate beasts.


"The quest of Cosmogenesis 2012, whether Mayan, Egyptian, or any other, must begin with the realization that a catastrophe of consciousness has occurred to human civilization. As we uncover the cosmogenesis, we will begin to see how denial has resulted in the fall, and how restoration of ancient beliefs will resurrect a New Aeon within our souls. The ancients told us very clearly, the message is written on the walls of the cosmos. They say that we must move away from our cave of self consciousness and into the everlasting spirit of being. This movement will function within the person as a vehicle fired by spiritual enlightenment. What we see through all the researchers from Hertha von Dechend and Giorgio de Santillana in Hamlet's Mill to John Major Jenkins in Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 is an increasing awareness that we have lost something we once cherished as cosmic awareness. That cosmic consciousness is being reborn, and it will happen on the schedule first recorded in cave drawings over 30,000 years ago. Our first step is to acknowledge that human mental capacities have not evolved continuously to greater consciousness over the intermediate ages, but they have been falling in a downward spiral toward obliviousness, for several millennia. The cycle we are presently completing was described nearly 2000 years ago in gnostic words recorded about our loss of personal soul."

"The essay Transcendence in Mayan Mythology demonstrated valuable esoteric wisdom in the Maya concept of the cosmogenesis of First Father in 2012. The follow up essay www.siloam.net/jenkins/index2.html#top">Source of the Cosmogenesis Story presented a cursory introduction to the source of all the greatest myths, Mayan or otherwise. The essay ended with the comment, "When the ancestors first saw the enlightenment, is not yet known, for it is still lost in the cycles of the heavens. The result of the enlightenment has been found again. The enlightenment was the Word, as originally expressed by whatever Force has the capacity to place the stars on their individual journeys. That Force is incredibly greater than any force knowable to humans. The cosmogenesis of 2012 will be a realization that the Word was that force, and those that can comprehend the Word, will be given the power to become sons of God." I have repeated these words to emphasize the point that the Maya myths were not esoteric fantasies, they had the very high goal of turning Maya children into gods. This is the goal of all religions. This is the meaning of the 5th Sun. "

"We must not blind ourselves to the fact that rational science, when applied to the metaphysics of religion, is incompetent. This incompetence comes from the tyrannical hypothesis implied by the scientific method as we apply it today. Our version of the scientific method excludes subjectivity. More important to the science initiate, is the mandatory edict that any scientific expression be presented with all subjectivity removed and replaced by total objectivity. That tyranny is an action of the trickster known as Seven Macaw to the Maya. If the Maya myths are expressing the Word of First father, then it has to be subjective. The subject is the whole essence of the myth. Science must exclude the complete story in order to be objective. That exclusion makes the modern scientific method incompetent to comprehend the subject of the cosmos as understood through any ancient myth which is a subjective vision of the cosmos. "

"There is a need to effectively honor the peoples who prepared the way to an understanding of the meaning of the 5th Sun. One way we can properly do that is by supporting the ultimate prophecy; that cosmic consciousness in the form of First Father's message will lead many generations of people to become sons of God. It is time for the ceremony of the opening of the mouth, and the acceptance of our common heritage within Mother Nature which came by the word of First Father. That is the perspective of the Maya sacred cosmogenesis which conjured the whole of the cosmos from the Fathers in the north to the Sons in the south, from Birth in the east to Death and Resurrection in the west, from the bottom to top, through Mother Earth and Father Sky, and from the First Fire to the Heavenly Field on the axis of the Milky Way. "


Now we know that the outcome of our society and planet is completely dependent on our collective consciousness and enlightenment, I suggest that we get our act together. It is 2008, after all. This is our chance! We have time to make intelligent moves, one of utmost importance being social reform- which is where The Venus Project comes in.
I'm sure we will have much to converse about.
Please inform me of your opinions. I would love to hear them!
We are onto something. We are remembering cosmic consciousness!

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