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After many postings on the absolutism of the so called revealed religions, like Christianism, Islam and Judaism, that declare themselves as the only true religions and the only legitimated depositary of the truth, I like to present to you instead the enlightened liberality of the old Roman Pagan world, that allowed everybody freedom of choice among many of the cults present at that time in the Roman Empire... this was the revolutionary greatness and wisdom of our Pagan ancestors, a dream of freedom and reciprocal respect among differences, which is instead in danger today with the aggressive politics and blind dogmas of the contemporary major religions. A real risk for Neopagans to become burnt at the stake of ignorance, bigotism, absolutism in the name of a puppet like God controlled by the spiritual Leaders for their obscure purposes!...

Then I will say Viva Rome! ... and too bad that after thousands of years of human evolution, a large part of people living on this planet didn't reach a dignified independence and freedom of thinking from the "heretical" and despotical leaders of these so called revealed religions.
Leaders that just for orgasm of power and greed, manipulated and still manipulate the thoughts of many enlightened souls that were the founder of those religions!

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Absolutely Viva Roman paganism! It's a fascinating moment in history - which I think lasted over 1000 years? - where a major political power let many many various pagan religions flourish.

I'm here in Rome and can sense the power of the Temple of Venus next to the Colosseum as well as the uncanny energy in the Temple of Diana in nearby Nemi and the wonder of Fortuna in Ostia Antica. I can feel the beautiful essence of all the temples and ancient ruins where rituals were probably or surely held.

I'm still learning a lot about this previous ancient time, but it seems to provide us a modern lesson that we could apply now to our worldwide circumstances with religion and political power clashes or subversive controls, in order to try to create a more balanced political / religious world.

Here's something I found in Wikipedia under 'Religion in ancient Rome':
Based heavily in Greek and Etruscan mythology, Roman religion came to encompass and absorb hundreds of other religions, developing a rich and complex mythology. In addition, an Imperial cult supplemented the pantheon with Julius Caesar and some of the emperors.

Here's an excerpt (http://library.thinkquest.org/28111/newpage1.htm) that helps explain it succinctly:
As the Roman empire expanded it came into contact with new and different religions. Many were absorbed into the state religion. Religious tolerance was a policy among the emperors. They introduced a policy of syncretism (the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion) designed to encourage the merging of pagan religions to unite people and effect greater political stability. This cemented and united the empire. So it came to pass that Romans could worship whoever they liked as long as it didn’t interfere with others.
Yeah.. Rome and its Empire was a phenomenon!...

As you said certainly incorporated some elements from the Etruscans and Greek civilizations, especially after the conquest of their territories. But also Rome had his own peculiar Gods and Magickal Rituals and beliefs! In fact the vast majority of Wiccan Rituals are coming from Roman Magick...

In my opinion, which can be partial since I was born there, I think that this city is not just the most amazing and fascinating city of the planet, but also a powerful and spiritual center that created 2.700 years ago, among many things, the most amazing pole of free culture, where people of different countries were living together ( certainly under the control of the Roman authorities... ) enjoying the famous Pax Romana, or an era of peace inside the big Roman Empire. Surely, with all defects that are always inevitabily, a shining example of tolerance for many intolerant nations of our contemporary world!.... to be meditated deeply...
Don't worry darlin' Donna, not just in the US there is "little education"!...
The "Rome silence", this is how I call the consciously inducted removal of the Roman glorious past, has deep roots, with the end of the Roman empire itself aka the end of ancient Paganism...

As Pagans or Neopagans we have many enemies ( I hate to sound always as a kind of Pagan fundamentalist preacher, but this is what history told us ... ), among them the so called Father of the Church, that were the first Christians thinkers of the church of Christ. Thanks to them the deliberate surgical removal of our past and the delegitimation of Rome ( Rome=Paganism ) started...

I will post on this soon a series of video that will be availaible freely on this community...

ps. ... hey Donna, it is true that part of old Italy was called "Magna Grecia", like a part of Greece, but the Greeks Socrates and Plato as Roman Gods is one of the best funny little tale ever !!!!
I always loved the Ancient History mainly the Egypt and Rome History. I think that I discovered and falled in love with Paganism because of the Gods and Goddesses of old Egypt and Rome. I admire the Roman Empire and its capacity to embrace a lot of faiths. I know, for example, that Isis' Cult was respected in Rome because of its beauty and wisdom. I think that the ancient roman were really democratic because they accepted all faiths. We can see that non-democratic governments regime tend to be intolerant about other faiths that not the state-faith because the first step to dominate a people is to control their souls. It's the principle behind the crusades and the burning times even the christian tv shows, to control their minds and thoughts, if not washing their brains doing it by force. I need the fresh air of Paganism to breath deeply and recover my spiritual forces! I feel confortable thinking that there are lots of Gods and Goddesses in the world to whom I can send my prayers and do my offerings! It's like to have a lot of friends around the world! Not only one All Mighty God in His Throne ruling all the world alone. The Paganism is coloured with the rainbow colors! And it's scented with old and rare scents! Its cymballs are resounding from the ancient temples once more! May the Arae be filled with sweet and sacred offerings again! Viva Roma! Ave Magna Mater!

I'm happy to hear you... I cannot agree more! the Gods heard you!! ... yes Viva Roma! Ave Magna Mater! ... and let's the ancient Gods of Paganism take back their old altars, that were stolen from them by mediocre ignorant interested and greedy ( I can go on and on... ) impostors!!
Yes! May the Ancient Gods take back their Arae from those greedy impostors!!! Someone said that a lament was heard across Arcadia: Pan is dead! when the man called Jesus was born. I hope to hear the opposite someday: Pan is alive! I hope those secular, dogmatic, non-democratic, totalitary religions die someday! I dream with a different world, in which the Temples and its Gods are alive again with all honor that they deserve! In fact the Gods are not dead, they were forgoten for most of people and the few who remember are divided into two categories: us, the Neo Pagan and that people who are afraid of the Ancient Gods' power and persecute them, its worshipers and priests. It is some kind of elite, they are afraid of losing their confortable position that they got and keep with their dirty agenda. Here in Brasil there is a movement against the "devil and his demons" proclamed by a Christian Evangelic Church. They preach against Paganism, Astrology, Tarot, Mediumship, all non Christian beliefs, guess what they are doing? They are using sorceries, magic, mediumship, blessings, oils, water, salt, roses, mind control technics, visualization, etc, to keep people attention! It's a mass hypnosis I think. They are all impostors! We don't want a holly war, we just want our space back, the space this greedy people have stolen from us. We want respect!!!

That's why as I pointed out in previous postings, Paganism needs badly asap a reunion under a united flag to be heard!.... Pan is alive, you can bet!
Certainly we need to find some common denominators among Pagans. One of them can be surely the common interest in defending our freedom from the threat of fundamentalists, as our Roman ancestors did with the different people that attempted to the safety of the Roman empire through the past centuries.
This why I think that the Islamic problem needs to be handle asap.

However we need to create a United movement of the whole Planetary Pagan community as first thing. probably not an easy task, but maybe possible!
Absolutely right,

especially thinking that as you said "... people have not wanted to recognize the threat..." and some of these people are part of this community, like Ray and Jacyntha, who start attacking me ( so silly and a no sense!..) without discussing the real problem which is all that counts and the core of our discussions! ...

Let me tell you that is really really ironic that an Italian (me) needs to show to an American (Ray) the possible threat of Islam!!!! simply unbelievable! ... do I have to remind of Sep11?... or maybe they think that I'm an Italian...fundamentalist! lol lol....
I wasn't going to comment on this thread at all, but since you mentioned me by name in your last post, what choice do I have?

First, there is absolutely no credence to the "legend" surrounding the scepter of Maxentius. It is a beautiful artifact, to be sure, but to mislead the members of this community by saying that it's unearthing signals a resurgence of pagan world rule (your words), is just, well, silly... Readers of this post can test my assertion for themselves... Type in "legend Maxentius scepter" into any search engine, then check the results.

Second, Roman pagan rule was pretty miserable for the (other pagan) people having to be ruled. The Dacians under Decabulus, for example, are thought to have sacrificed their children to gain "immunity" from Roman rule.
Roman power was obsessive, pervasive, unforgiving, and rigidly authoritarian. I for one have no desire to return to that "golden age".

Finally, has it occurred to you that modern paganism has already been reborn (and without you as the midwife!)? Self-appointed neopagan "spokesmen" and "spokeswomen" have an average shelf-life of about two weeks in this business, because neopagans (and I love this) TEND TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES!!!
Dear Donna,

I share all your fears... which are not just wonderings but reality!

Islam IT is invading the world NOW and we are just...sleepin'!

What can I do? As you say people in the US are occupied with recession... here in Italy mainly with soccer!

Well let me be sarcastic and... good for Islam!
We probably deserve to be conquered ( can you imagine my satisfaction in seeing my good friend Ray with a log beard not allowed to drink beer in the name of Allah!... ), since we failed as Pagans during the fall of the Roman empire and we are repeating similar errors with repetitive obtuse behavior, including not just common people but also our political leaders.

I heard somewhere that America is now what was Rome in the past.
Great! I hope that your country won't share, even after centuries, the same fate of Rome....

However I have to say that what is happening today reminds me of the famous fall of Troy chanted by Homer ( you know the old city, that is now Turkey, at the time of ancient Greece... yeah the movie with Brad Pitt too... )....
I can see the entrance of the Greek invaders during the deep sleep of the Trojans... also remind me of the poor Pagan clairvoyant Cassandra, that tried to advert the population about the incoming threat and disaster, with the result of being ignored and also insulted!

Can you see in the metaphor above the rising of Islam... I'm wondering if its about time to wake up folks?...
Ray you have a lot of fun in always contradict my words, do you?

My fun instead is rapidly decreasing and its becoming really unpleasant to reply to your crap... however making an exercise of patience I will answer your objections in your message above:
I wonder do you know better of a Roman about the legend of Maxentius? I won't certainly discuss with you about chickens and cows, since I trust and respect your knowledge of a country boy...

No mention about the legend from Wikipedia means nothing, since this site, as we know, can be always updated...
Instead I'm in Rome researching directly on the fields and giving to you my findings with honesty and without lies...

As for the WELL KNOWN POPULAR anger and envy of part of the world against Rome and their "Manichean" interpretation and manipulation of historical events, I just can say that Rome showed his genius in every aspect of his greatness. As we know nothin' on this planet is perfect, neither Rome was. But at least was for the most a tolerant empire for the Pagans that lived there. Surely with exceptions, that were dictate also by internal problematic issue with the control of a so vast empire...

I hope Ray that you will agree that in a thousand and more years of Roman empire reign, randomly a bad guy emperor, an asshole or a bloody tyrant can show up...

However I'm using Rome, as a magical tool, separated by historical single events, just as a symbol of strenght and as the source, cause was mainly the source, of modern Paganism.
I do not care about the Dacians neither for the many soldier that dies for Rome, Rome is just an archetypal symbol of strenght-force for me, that has his magical strenght in a superior spiritual level.
Surely the use or misuse of this "force" during the old days of the Empire is debeatable, but still powerful in his pure strenght! This strenght, as a magician, I admire and revere...

Rome phenomenon was and still really interesting from a Magical point of view for the new Pagans.

Regarding the scepter, nobody can say anything about the Legend of the sceptre of Maxentius... is just an Omen and as an Omen I'm interpreting for the good of Neopaganism!

Ray, after seeing you flirting with the Islamic integralism and now with your rejection of the capital of ancient Paganism I got enough... I personally dislike your vision and I see in you many things that I reject as a Pagan and free spirit!

Since I also perceive your "sufferings" in this community, with your pathetical strenuous efforts to cancel 9/11 and now to denigrate Rome: It is maybe better and about time for you to leave this "eretical" Neopagan community for a better one?


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