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Hello,
A Muslim man, in San Petersburg ( Russia ), killed a daughter just cause she was wearing a miniskirt, which is probably seen as scandalous for the Koranic law, he actually hired three other Muslims to murder the young girl!
Unfortunately this is not an isolated case but one of the many cases of intolerance and madness against women ( and more... ) from Muslim believers.
This didn't happen in the middle of somewhere like an Arabic village but in one of the most important city of Russia...
Certainly it's not the first time that we heard about similar atrocities and I personally frankly got enough...
I always had hard time in believing that this kind of acts are belonging to a genuine doctrine of the Koran or an interpretation of it...
I know that in the world there are "good" Muslims, but today there are too many horrifying and unacceptable acts made by them in the name of this religion, that I start almost to believe that the vast majority of them share a real brutal belief... I would like to know your opinion at this regard and overall if you think that it would be nice if President Obama, who strives for a "reconciliation" of USA with the Islamic World, will ask the most influential spiritual leaders of Islam to clarify once and for all if the religion of Mohammed is really a violent intolerant credo as it seems unfortunately often... and if these kinds of acts, which are really extreme and foolish, made always in the name of Allah, are legitimated or not by the Koran and by the contemporary spiritual leaders!!... So that finally we will be more aware of the real nature of Islam, because without a CLEAR explanation, a black shadow will be always surrounding them and their religion...

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Well Erik surely I do respect the faith of every religion of this planet and the "good will" of people, which by the way has little to do with the issue above.
I know really well the origins of Islam, especially during the Sufi period. Sufism reached a really high level of spirituality...
But this was the past, a past that now seems forgotten and rejected by continuous insane calls at absurd "holy wars"!

Go and look in their countries, not what happen with the Muslim americanized in the US obviously... I lived in Iran and India and I SAW with my eyes the real thing!

Today something extreme always happens with the WHOLE Islamic "way of living". It is also under the eye of everybody the way that women are treated everyday in the Muslim countries just to say one issue.
Regarding myself i'm personally disgusted with these repetitive stories and i don't want to be "politically correct" nor either i can accept anything that many of the Muslims, every day in the world, are doing as a system of brainwashing people and martyrizing in the name of Allah or Mohammed. That's absurd manipulation of the tradition...

ps. .. im sure that among billions of Muslim somebody good is there ...

Also I did speak with Allah ( channelling the Gods ) and that's why I'm talking here... you know what I mean? do you...

Erik, I wait to hear somebody more representative rather than your friend to finally take a strong position and hopefully guiding Muslims out of these chains of crimes against freedom and dignity of humanity, to make them finally open their blind eyes.

ps. ... im sure that among billions of Muslims somebody good is there ...
Sufism is still around and so are the Sufis. There's probably some Sufi Orders in the States now. Personally met some American Sufis myself. So its not actually ancient history, as one would assume.
Psyfool,

just go this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

personally I dont know what to say to you, this happens when I'm embarrassed or I have an obtuse or ignorant opponent.... just two things:

1. Sufism predates Islam and created it.
2. Whether Sufism is still alive today is not my point... also we need to see what kind of Sufism is alive today...

I repeat to you and to all my basic main question: Why did Islam, from the lovely Sufi beginning, become ( in large part ) this modern enraged and violent credo?
LOL. Now who died and made you of Inspector-General of Sufis?:) Are you truly able to judge? The ways of the Sufis are varied, there are the Sufi Masters, those who teach and there are the Sufi Mureeds, his Disciples who could be the guy running the corner shop.Not every Sufi fits the Ibn.-Arabi mode. Some are just ordinary guys, who keep to themselves because Sufism is an intensely personal thing and being ostentatious is not recommended. As for the violent enraged thing that Islam had become, here's some history. When Turkey went secular, they banned the Sufi Orders under the penalty of death. when the wahabi heretics took over Mecca and Medina, they banned Sufi Orders again under the pain of death. By the way, the US government is a major ally to the Saudi wahabis. Bin Ladin is a big time wahabi who despises Sufism and Sufis). Central Asia, the home to many Sufi Orders came under Communist control, who repressed all forms of religion. All in all, the 20th century wasn't kind to the Sufis. who in response,went underground. What you see as Islam today is actually the Wahabi Heresy.
Psyfool,

I do not work for any Western government: I'm the inspector of the Gods ( if you like that... ) and I care about Islam just cause they can be a threat to us.

I appreciate your deep analysis about Islam but I have to disagree:

Regarding what you say about Bin Laden being Wahhabi I'm not sure cause this term is rejected by Islam extremists like AL Qaeda...

In my opinion Islam got first detached from the mystical sophisticated ancient Islamic matrix called Sufism...then entered a backward path with the advent of Mohammed, adding to the Prophet "message", over the centuries, strong materialists gratuitous ideas.

The Islamic extremists today uses a distorted ( once again! ) Salafi ideology ( from Salafi, a Sunni Islamic movement that takes the pious ancestors (Salaf) of the patristic period of early Islam as exemplary models ).
Modern Islam, through his formidable stubborn fanaticism, rejects not only Western ideologies such as Socialism and Capitalism, but also common Western concepts like economics, constitutions, political parties, social rules....
They also believe in the so called Jihad, interpreted as an holy war against western civilization. Here we are at 9/11!!

Now the next big question, again unanswered by politicians and mullhas is: what is Islam today?... this religion seems to appear sometimes as a sweet puppy and then all of a sudden roaring as a wild lion!
Surely a big purification-clarification is needed inside his doctrinal corpum.

You're right about US having at least a "tricky" behavior with Islamic countries, however let's move on...

How long then do we need to wait for Barack Obama ( instead of hearing him talking about AL Qaeda and friends... ), in order to politically and ideoligically cut Islam extremists legs, to prepare a congress with the principal Islamic spiritual guides and the other leader of the world Religions, in order to reach a clear and definite new path for the Islamic world, a path that will reconcile modern Islam with the non Islamic world, and more important with their ( Sufi ) ancient roots, banishing forever this outrageous concepts of Jihad or Holy war & co....

Consideration for Psyfool: The fact that I started in asking you why Islam abandoned ( suppressed ) their primary credo, that was the sublime Ancient Sufism, doesn't imply that I don't know personally the answer to this question....

maybe bro I know more of what you think....
We called them wahabis because they follow abdul wahab's teachings, Bin ladin, Mullah Omar, Zahwiri, the usual bunch of suspects. Only they call themselves Salafis, cause no other Muslim would back in the old days but they are the one and the same. Its the degree of fanaticism that separates one wahabi lot from another. As for why Islam abandoned the Ancient Sufism that's your opinion, you got a right to it. My point was to inform that Sufis and Sufism is still around, despite everything. You say, Sufism is rooted in paganism, some other guy might notice Ibn Arabi's Neo-Platonic Wahdahtul Wujud and say its based on Greek philosophy. Cue in the seemingly cabalistic stuff Sufis do then it looks jewish. The practice of Tawwasul amongst Sufis, invocation of Sufi Saints and Angels resembles christians and gnostics yet Sufis invoke the assistance of the inhabitants of the Unseen realm, Djinns, ifrits, elementals, peris(fairies) ect ect...this seems pagan and animistic. Talk about Fana Billah and a buddhist will think about Nirvana. Throw in the breathing exercises during zikir and the yogic positions and t
cheap stupid computer..anyways the Hindu will find it all quite familiar.Just put in your two cents and lets see if there's room for it of which i'm sure there is. Consider the fact that Ibni Arabi, Bayazid, Abu Said, Jamaluddin Rumi...the great Sufi Masters of old lived and died in the Fold of Islam, following the Way of the Holy Prophet( peace be upon him) and the answer will never be to everyone's satisfaction but so what?
Sufis and Sufism are still with us. The Tajjali of this Age is the Tajalli of Love, the Sharia takes a backseat( wahabis go apeshit over stuff like this) a Sufi Murshid said a few years back. Ibni Arabi whose work was much misunderstood during his time amongst the Muslim Scholars who felt it was scandalous and even for some sufis of his time, those lines about his heart being meadow of wild gazelles, a monastery for christian monks ect ect ect...the same Sufi Murshid spoke that Ibni Arabi wasnt talking about the Age Ibni Arabi was living in, Ibni Arabi was speaking about this Age we live in now. You may regard those words as beautiful prose of a bygone past but for the Sufis those words live and have meaning.lets hope we'll both be around to see those words come true. Cheers and MM's and Salams. Apologies if i gave offense to folks. Later"....
Ok Psyfool,

very good your analysis about the fragmentation of Sufism and his historical correlation with Pagans faiths. However here in this topic, which is not about the essence of Sufism, I'm only interested to showing to the world that modern Islam is a degenerative product, or if you like a no sensical "evolution" from previous models, first detaching himself from spiritual ancient Sufism and then keeping distance from Mohammed teachings. Adding a series of gratuitous "inventions" to create a modern intolerant violent credo suitable for the needs of the Mullhas, the Islamic spiritual guides, that are in charge of control the "ignorant" and submissive Islamic masses.
Thanks for sharing this horrifying news. For those who haven't seen the news coverage, here are some links:
MOSNEWS.com http://www.mosnews.com/society/2009/04/13/shortskirtt/
Telegraph.co.uk http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/5148811/Rus...
The Australian http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25331142-12377,0...

Clearly this is a violent and terrifying act by a father scandalized in his own mind and the minds of his community by his daughters choice of clothes. The father and murderers were caught and will be hopefully be prosecuted. But this does point to some fundamental ideals within the Muslim community that should be discussed.

I would like to see President Obama raise the issue of Justice, internationally, to the Islamic nations, to get a response as to what is just or unjust in their belief systems. In the US those that are Muslim are more than likely not who we need to hear from, but really from the others in the heart of the territory.
Thumbs up Donna! ... I totally agree... just one further problem & step: somebody needs to tell this to Obama!
Hey Donna you got the point! You said it right: "there is no separation of Muslim religion and Muslim politics. They are one and the same." That's the real problem with the Muslim people. We all know what politicians are capable of to keep their positions and influence over the people. How to trust or who to trust when these two things are so mixed? But I think it is not only a Muslim problem, it's a Christian problem too, we have seen what Church can do to protect their staff when a priest is get involved in a crime for example. They'll do everything to keep their power. But if we think well we will see this pattern inside of all institutionalized religions. Give power to a person and you will see what he or she is capable of. It's not different when we are talking about religion because religion is made by man. It's all about the mankind and its issues.
That's a good idea, Donna, thanks.

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