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With the danger of a personal freedom banned in the future, what can a smart Neopagan do NOW?...

Following my examination of modern Islam and of the impact of so called revealed religions on our everyday life, I like to see what's gonna happen possibly and most likely next. I will like to know your perspective and I will tell you mine. Obviously I see in danger our Paganic freedom in a world largely dominated by Christians and Muslims. Besides ideological extremist thinkers like Al Qaeda or the Christians Opus Dei, the vast majority of the accolades are just following the dictates of their leaders. Then we need to prepare ourselves to fight for our Pagan Credo right of expression, before they will control our freedom, closing us in a cul de sac, like in a virtual prison and in a worst but possible scenario suppressing with violence our Credo and freedom.
Among many examples of today's repression of thought, I like to point out a fancy example, but meaningful, regarding the famous Portoguese soccer coach Jose Mourinho, actual coach of Inter Fc. Milan soccer club. Just today Mourinho was criticized by an Italian Muslim leader and also threatened with death by various Islamic groups, cause he had remarked that one of his players, the Muslim soccer player Mountari, was following too much strictly the rules of Islamic Ramadam, with the result of becoming too weak to play soccer decently.
Everybody can see that the coach was obviously concerned about the team and not surely interested or wanting to offend the Islamic Ramadam ( Muslims around the world are fasting during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, during which faithful followers abstain from eating or drinking during daylight hours... ). So that we can see again the well known Islamic fanaticism and intolerance at work here!...then its easy to see what is gonna happen next, when the Islamic world, in the years to come, at today's expansion rate, will dominate the masses....WARNING..red flag! Pagans!

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Below follows an excerpt from the famous Sufi mystic Ibn Arabi that shows the abyssal distance from modern Islam and the evident link among ancient Paganism with primitive Islamic credo that was Sufism:

“How wonderful! a garden in the fire. My heart transmutes itself to all forms; A meadow for wild gazelles, a monastery for Christian monks, a temple for Pagan Gods, the kabba for Muslim pilgrims, Tablets for the Jewish Law and pages for the Quran. I proclaim the religion of Love, and wherever it carries me, this is my creed and faith”. -Muhyiddin Ibn 'Arabi, (Sufi poet: 1165-1240).
Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, sufi, or zen. Not any religion
or cultural system. I am not from the East or the West, not out of the ocean or up
from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all. I do not exist,
am not an entity in this world or the next, did not descend from Adam or Eve or any
origin story. My place is placeless, a trace of the traceless. Neither body or soul.
I belong to the beloved, have seen the two worlds as one and that one call to and know,
first, last, outer, inner, only that breath breathing human being.

Mevlana Jelaledin Rumi (1027-1273)
Dear Neopagan fellows,
Regarding the topic of this discussion and talking about Islamic brutal suppression of freedom just take a look as an example of what is happening in Iraq, now. The Islamic Integralists ( how many?...the majority of people?...hmmm ) are now searchin' for gay people, in order to kill them cause they are infecting the nation!!?... in five months this year more than 600 hundred people were killed, among the victims also many women. They are first tortured and then assassinated.
I'm not gay since I'm straight, but I do sympathize with the victims and I consider those brutal assassinations another criminal action against our personal freedom of choice. I don't like that anybody will tell me what to do or forbid me to follow my sexual inclinations...

In this case we are not in presence of kamikaze extremists or AL Qaeda fans but just intolerant Islamic people.
We can call them with different names, but they are just Muslims and the substance remain as this blind Islamic credo is the intolerant fanatical matrix of those crimes!
This is just another act of "normal" everyday violence in a Islamic nation...
Here we are again! Another sign of how dangerous and sick is this modern Islam largely based on blind crude fanaticism.
Do we need to be tolerant regarding this repetitive obtuse behavior of a religion that seems to be trapped in a muddy land of anachronistic fanatical bigotism?

How we can accept this behavior from a religion that is becoming the first religion of the world!!!

Thanks Founder for bringing up this perspective. Human Rights are the issue.... and within Muslim Law and the practice of it, there seems to be little human rights for Gays or Women. For the Neopagans and Pagans reading this discussion, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION. You are safe in America and in many western European countries for now. But we have to be cautious not to loose the freedom that we have gained through the blood of our ancestors. This is not a single persons issue or crusade. This is a world-wide issue and we are not the only ones concerned.

In the case here about the Gays in Iraq, we give another example of fanaticism that kills and terrorizes regularly.

I hope you can all also watch the quick news video report above. It's the video that goes with the article Founder posted.

Here's another worthy read pointed to in an NPR blog: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/08/recommended_reading_hum...
The blog suggests you read the publication "They Want Us Exterminated", which is a report on Human Rights violations against Gays and inside the Muslim communities. It's further horrifying indictments and confirmations of human rights crimes practices there.

Now, I believe the argument is won about this practice existing. Also, we have shown through a couple simple internet researches that there are organizations within and outside of these Muslim communities that are confirming the atrocities and communicating about them.

As believers in Freedom, what do WE need to do? How do we further our own freedom, how do we protect and maintain what we already have, to prevent it from eroding?
We need to get out of denial and educate ourselves - and those around us. Don't ignore, anymore, what is before you.
Thanks Rebecca for your contribution!

Here's follow below another case of the spread-out integralist disease of the common intolerant Islamic modern credo-vision.

As for the link below, a group of 600 Chinese workers was forced to converted themselves to Muslim religion just to work in Mecca!
This shows how is eradicated integralism in Arabia. You also need to know that Arabia, one of the "moderate" Islamic nations, consider Mecca the sacred capital of Islam, so that nobody that is not Muslim can enter or work there....
This shows again the same repetitive pattern of obtuse blind fanatical common integralism, which is, at the opposite of many "tolerant" naive thinkers vision, spreaded out to the whole Islamic world and not just to few extremists groups!

I can show many other examples of "common Islam integralism", but at this point we don't need them anymore, cause NOW we know what Islam really is: a blind violent religion which use among others brutal suppression of freedom as a favorite tool in order to control people mind and actions!

Then it is of primary importance to realize what is happening in Islam today:
We need to realize, once for all, that we are indiscriminately opening the doors of our nations to Islam, letting them grow in front of our temples, when instead they are closing their doors in our face in their own countries!...

It is in our main interest to stop this trend and to talk with the Islamic leaders to clarify the situation, in order to rectify and rebuild a new islam! That's why we need a world summit dedicated to that goal.

I said to all of you that wants to deny reality, closing the eyes in the name of a "politically correct" vision of an unrealistic world: wake up! Your freedom is in danger in the future and... today!!!

I found another site that you may like to review, and others who are doubtful or curious might want to go here and read a little more too:

There are many blogs and article links on this site, but in order to aid everyone reading this, I have copied and pasted their website homepage which states their goals and manifesto, which are in italics so you know what I copied:


* to educate Muslims about dangers presented by Islamic religious texts and why Islam must be reformed
* to educate non-Muslims about the differences between moderate Muslims and Islamists (a.k.a. Islamic Religious Fanatics, Radical Muslims, Muslim Fundamentalists, Islamic Extremists or Islamofascists)
* to educate both Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Moderate Muslims are also targets of Islamic Terror

Acknowledging mistakes
The majority of the terrorist acts of the last three decades, including the 9/11 attacks, were perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists in the name of Islam. We, as Muslims, find it abhorrent that Islam is used to murder millions of innocent people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Inconsistencies in the Koran
Unfortunately, Islamic religious texts, including the Koran and the Hadith contain many passages, which call for Islamic domination and incite violence against non-Muslims. It is time to change that. Muslim fundamentalists believe that the Koran is the literal word of Allah. But could Allah, the most Merciful, the most Compassionate, command mass slaughter of people whose only fault is being non-Muslim?

The Koran & the Bible
Many Bible figures from Adam to Jesus (Isa) are considered to be prophets and are respected by Islam. Islamic scholars however believe that both the Old and the New Testament came from God, but that they were corrupted by the Jews and Christians over time. Could it be possible that the Koran itself was corrupted by Muslims over the last thirteen centuries?

The need for reform
Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy. Twenty-first century Muslims have two options: we can continue the barbaric policies of the seventh century perpetuated by Hassan al-Banna, Abdullah Azzam, Yassir Arafat, Ruhollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, etc., leading to a global war between Dar al-Islam (Islamic World) and Dar al-Harb (non-Islamic World), or we can reform Islam to keep our rich cultural heritage and to cleanse our religion from the reviled relics of the past. We, as Muslims who desire to live in harmony with people of other religions, agnostics, and atheists choose the latter option. We can no longer allow Islamic extremists to use our religion as a weapon. We must protect future generations of Muslims from being brainwashed by the Islamic radicals. If we do not stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, our children will become homicidal zombies.

Accepting responsibilities
To start the healing process, we must acknowledge evils done by Muslims in the name of Islam and accept responsibility for those evils. We must remove evil passages from Islamic religious texts, so that future generations of Muslims will not be confused by conflicting messages. Our religious message should be loud and clear: Islam is peace; Islam is love; Islam is light. War, murder, violence, divisiveness & discrimination are not Islamic values.

Religious privacy
Religion is the private matter of every individual. Any person should be able to freely practice any religion as long as the practice does not interfere with the local laws, and no person must be forced to practice any religion. Just as people are created equal, there is no one religion that is superior to another. Any set of beliefs that is spread by force is fundamentally immoral; it is no longer a religion, but a political ideology.

Islam is one of the many of the world's religions. There will be no Peace and Harmony in the World if Muslims and non-Muslims do not have equal rights. Islamic supremacy doctrine is just as repulsive as Aryan supremacy doctrine. History clearly shows what happens to the society whose members consider themselves above other peoples. All moderate Muslims must repudiate the mere notion of Islamic supremacy.

Sharia Law must be abolished, because it is incompatible with norms of modern society.

Outdated practices
Any practices that might have been acceptable in the Seventh Century; i.e., stoning, cutting off body parts, marrying and/or having sex with children or animals, must be condemned by every Muslim.

Outdated verses
The following verses promote divisiveness and religious hatred, bigotry and discrimination. They must be either removed from the Koran or declared outdated and invalid, and marked as such.

Outdated words & phrases
Use of the following words and phrases or their variations must be prohibited during religious services:
• Infidel / Unbeliever: these terms have negative connotation and promote divisiveness and animosity; Islam is not the only religion
• Jihad: this word is often interpreted as Holy War against non-Muslims
• Mujaheed / Holy Warrior: no more wars in the name of Islam
• American (Christian / Crusader / Israeli / Zionist) occupation: these terms promote bigotry; at this point in time, Muslims living in non-Muslim lands have more freedoms than Muslims living in Muslim lands

Islam vs. violence
Islam has no place for violence. Any person calling for an act of violence in the name of Islam must be promptly excommunicated. Any grievances must be addressed by lawful authorities. It is the religious and civic duty of every Muslim to unconditionally condemn any act of terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam. Any Muslim group that has ties to terrorism in any way, shape, or form, must be universally condemned by both religious and secular Muslims.

Portrayal of Prophets
While portrayal of Prophets is not an acceptable practice in Islam could be personally offensive to some Muslims, other religions do not have such restrictions. Therefore, the portrayal of the Prophets must be treated as a manifestation of free expression.

The Crusades vs. The Inquisition
While the Inquisition was a repulsive practice by Christian Fundamentalists, the Crusades were not unprovoked acts of aggression, but rather attempts to recapture formerly Christian lands controlled by Muslims.

Brothers and Sisters!
Do not make the next generation of Muslims clean up your mess!
Fight Islamic Fascism now, so your children won't have to!
I have known many Muslims who were very nice people.The problem is,the new Muslim extremism is creating a religion that Mohammed never even thought of.The word Islam itself refers to "PEACE" and we can see that has nothing to do with their actions.They destroyed ancient Buddhist statues and turned peaceful Indonesians into radicals(they were meant to be Buddhist or even Hindu).A religion that tells you to kill anyone who doesn't believe what you do,not educate women and not allow children to play with toys? I don't know who their Allah is,because it sure isn't the one Mohammed was talking to! I worry about this.We don't see Jewish or Christian or Hindu people trying to shove their religion down our throats. This harkens back to the Inquesition.I'd rather set my head on fire and put it out with a sledge hammer than be Muslim.It is not my CHOICE.This is what we must all fight for.I wear a pentagram necklace to work every day,and ,if asked, I simply say it's my religion and let them guess.
I agree Ableza,

A "revealed" religion that don't or cannot retrace from his own peculiar intransigent modern philosophy, being largely submitted for his popular ideological content to the dictatorial vision of tyrannical intolerant spiritual guides, obtuse ignorant preachers, extremists and terrorists, is surely dangerous for our freedom and certainly guilty of silent acceptance of this "criminal" ideological philosophy that they are calling a "revealed" message!... it is surely becamed a "revealed" religion made to serve an obscure evil goal of domination over the masses...
Hi Ableza/Laura, thanks for joining the conversation. I think part of the key is what you say - CHOICE. We all, as Pagans or Wiccans or non-Muslims need to speak up about this, to continue to have a CHOICE in our selection of religion (or agnostic etc) as well as CHOICE in what we wear (no burka) etc.

We also have a CHOICE to maintain our rights, what I believe are world-wide human rights that are unfortunately not the same as what the Muslims would have, and as they expand their religion, they want to change my and your rights.

Not recognizing this issue, not addressing this issue, is also a CHOICE but may lead to LOSS OF CHOICE. The worst case scenario is that we lose the abilities to discuss these issues and to live the way we have become accustomed. This would be a future we / you want to avoid, yes?

What CAN you do? Keep talking about it. Show your friends, fellow pentagram wearers, this page of this website. Keep researching what is happening in other parts of the world. Keep reading and educating yourself, and communicating your ideas.

Today we have our freedom. Tomorrow? Like Founder says above, we want to really look at what these Muslims are saying and DOING - behavior shows it all.
Ive been here in Ryhadh for almost 3 years and have made many friends among the populations.  I agree that while some of the laws drive me crazy as I see them as backwards I have the understanding that I have to respect them despite my belief that they are nul and void and quite silly.  Everything that as a pagan we should stand for is tollerance and empathy even if we dont understand or agree.  Trying to convert another without the "practice what you preach" attitude is going to fail no matter what is tried as actions are looked upon rather than words in an old book.  Most wars are because of the "my way is the right way" attitude and intollerance of others beliefs and cultures.  Take the time to use the brain before opening the mouth and the friends made across the cultural devide could be for life.
Tolerance is a positive attitude but needs to have limits, your main goal is to have balance between wisdom and actions, in order to protect your freedom. When your freedom is at danger, like in all Islamic countries today, action is needed. As we can see in the recent turmoil in the whole area a strong reaction-revolution is in action. This is my sincere belief.
I agree that standing for your belief and freedoms is a fundimental right but so is comprimise.  No problem will ever be settled without comprimise and understanding from all parties and this is where things go wrong.   My own country is a prime example of this.  Where would South Africa be today if Nelson Mandela had left prison an angry and bitter man??  We would have been like the rest of Africa - a third world country at war!!  A good and intellegent leader is always better than a person who religion bashes to get their way.


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